Powerlifting & Consulting: Marwane's Journey of Balancing Strength and Strategy

00:00:02:

00:00:07: This is Roland Berger, Roland Berger.

00:00:10: Hello and welcome to episode number four of the Roland Berger People Insights podcast.

00:00:15: My name is Ben, I am a communications manager at Roland Berger and also the host of this podcast.

00:00:21: Today's guest is Marwana, a sharp-minded consultant and project manager by profession and a powerlifter by passion.

00:00:27: A lot more about Mavana's inspiring path from lazy kid to successfully competing powerlifter and how passion, discipline and focus can shape your career and character to push your own limits to completely new boundaries.

00:00:41: Get ready to be inspired!

00:00:43: I'm Mavana, it's nice to have you here today and for the beginning let's start with the tradition of having some warmer questions.

00:00:53: Do

00:00:56: you ever go to Hype Song before a big lift or a big meeting?

00:01:00: Plenty actually, but I would go for the commander speech from Attack on Titan, where he turns his troops fear into commitment.

00:01:06: That's perfect before either a heavy pull or a tough steering committee.

00:01:09: What's one thing people would be surprised to learn about you?

00:01:12: I was an overweight, very nerdy kid who hated physical effort before.

00:01:17: Deadlift, bench or squat?

00:01:18: Which one's your favorite and why?

00:01:21: Undoubtedly deadlift because to me it's a full system commitment where you have to override the brain's nope alarm and go anyway.

00:01:28: That's truly fascinating in my opinion.

00:01:30: Thank you very much.

00:01:31: Now it's about your personal journey into consulting.

00:01:34: What do we do at Roland Burger?

00:01:36: At Roland Burger, I'm a PM, a project manager in the energy and utilities team.

00:01:40: In Paris, I conduct mostly due diligence and strategic plans for clients in the energy and utility system and sometimes a bit above, more generally in the info.

00:01:49: It's been three years today, actually.

00:01:51: I joined three years ago, always in the energy and utility system.

00:01:54: And before that, I was a consultant in a boutique firm that was also specialized in energy purposes.

00:02:01: Great.

00:02:01: So happy anniversary.

00:02:03: Can you walk us through your path at Roland Burger a little bit?

00:02:07: Okay, so I studied engineering at Ecole Polytechnique in France, and then I did a master at Stanford.

00:02:12: At the time, I thought I'd go into research, and because I loved science, I only do science classes.

00:02:16: But actually, a lab internship taught me I need, I would say, decision cycles.

00:02:21: So I joined the boutique energy strategy firm, where I learned the industry and the trenches, and then I moved to Rollenberger to scale that work across energy, mobility, and info.

00:02:30: I've been promoted project manager one month ago this July so I'm getting to lead bigger teams and own the answer end to end which relates to why consulting at the beginning.

00:02:40: What inspired you to pursue a career in consulting?

00:02:43: My dad was a consultant before for a very long time and when I was younger, actually I noticed now that the long drives were basically case studies interviews where he would point out at McDonald's and ask how many people eat there at lunch.

00:02:55: We would break it into lanes, cars turn over and so on.

00:02:57: It was really fun.

00:02:58: So I think it conditioned me a bit to become a consultant.

00:03:02: What do you enjoy most about being a consultant?

00:03:05: I would say three things.

00:03:06: First one is learning new things, whether hard skills, soft skills, knowledge on every project is very important for me.

00:03:12: I don't like the routine, the knowledge, I would say.

00:03:15: Second is the opportunity to advise sea level people who deeply care about your opinion and recommendation.

00:03:21: I think it's really rewarding and it doesn't start the case in a lot of jobs or companies, I would say.

00:03:26: And the last one is everything related to pedagogy, teaching the younger consultants what I've been taught, but more importantly, what I haven't been taught to allow them to improve better.

00:03:37: That sounds like a great topic.

00:03:38: What key lessons have you learned throughout your consulting journey so far?

00:03:42: Again, I think three main lessons.

00:03:44: First one is your opinion matters to the client because you're bringing a fresh eye.

00:03:48: I didn't know it when I was younger.

00:03:49: I thought I wouldn't teach anything to the client, but actually they're so deep rooted in their routine that... you actually do with your fresh eye.

00:03:55: Second is, if something seems off or hardly understandable, then it's probably the case.

00:04:00: It's not that you don't understand, it's something's wrong.

00:04:03: And... The last thing which kind of disappointed me, I would say the beginning, but now I understand it, is that the way you're communicating the message is as important or more important than the message itself.

00:04:15: Because as a science guy, I used to think that the answer was the final goal and there is just one truth.

00:04:20: But in real life, there is no truth.

00:04:22: It's very dependent on every one of us.

00:04:25: So the way you're communicating is much more important.

00:04:28: Speaking the same language.

00:04:29: Exactly, exactly.

00:04:31: Once you have the answer, you have to convince the client that the answer is correct.

00:04:35: So now we switch a little bit about to the powerlifting passion.

00:04:41: How did you first get into powerlifting?

00:04:43: It's a funny story.

00:04:45: I lifted casually for years, like typical gym rat, I would say.

00:04:49: Then I went to a more serious gym where a coach that was half my size out lifted me by a mile.

00:04:55: So it exposed the gap between looking strong and actually being strong.

00:04:58: So my competitive brain, I would say, switched on and I got into powerlifting, which consists of lifting the heaviest weights possible in squat, bench and deadlift.

00:05:08: So how does it differ from regular bodybuilding alone?

00:05:11: As I said, you go to the gym, everyone thinks about heavy weights, but there's something special about it, right?

00:05:17: This is true.

00:05:18: Actually, there is a difference that not a lot of people understand is that bodybuilding is about developing the muscle mass and being as lean as possible in an aesthetic goal.

00:05:27: While powerlifting does not care about aesthetics at all, we just want to be as strong as possible on the three lifts.

00:05:32: Obviously, muscle mass is very important to be strong because there is a correlation between strength and muscle mass.

00:05:38: But being the leanest actually is... even counterproductive strength wise.

00:05:43: It is probably more difficult and more dangerous than traditional bodybuilding because of the rates, correct?

00:05:49: I think the trainings are much more difficult in powerlifting because you go in the rep range below three to four reps per set.

00:05:57: So this is usually where technique breaks down and where you get injury risks.

00:06:03: And also it takes a lot of mental strength to convince yourself to lift heavy weights because your brain sends a lot of signals not to do it because it's literally afraid to die.

00:06:13: And like bodybuilding when you're in the rep range of between eight and twelve, even more, so you basically don't get injured if you do things properly.

00:06:20: However, bodybuilding is much more difficult outside the gym when it comes to the diet where they are much more strict because they want to stay as lean as possible whereas we're a bit more lenient.

00:06:31: We just need to, I mean, if I'm being a bit sketchy, we just need to eat enough, I would say, for the energy.

00:06:38: I think that a junk food is still off the table, right?

00:06:41: Off the table, but I don't use a scale to weigh my food typically.

00:06:47: Do you have a plan for the week, basically, for your diet?

00:06:51: Or is it just like, today I do this, tomorrow I do this, more relaxed?

00:06:55: No, I'm more relaxed, but also I was in bodybuilding before, before meeting the guy I mentioned, the coach.

00:07:01: So I now intuitively know when to eat, how much to eat of each type of food.

00:07:07: So I don't do it anymore, but when you're not very knowledge about it, yes, you have to be more strict.

00:07:13: But I think the main driver is just the amount of calories that you have every day.

00:07:17: When I don't eat enough, I simply pass out during the trainings and that's dangerous.

00:07:21: Yeah, that sounds not healthy.

00:07:23: So can you tell me a little bit about your training routine?

00:07:26: How does it look like during a typical week?

00:07:28: Yes, so I train five times a week once on Sunday and four times during the work week.

00:07:33: I try not to interfere with work.

00:07:36: So I either work a train between five thirty to eight in the morning or after nine to ten p.m.

00:07:42: until twelve in the evening.

00:07:44: And that's basically it.

00:07:46: Whenever someone starts the gym, everyone will tell him on Monday you hit chest, on Tuesday you hit back, and then you hit legs and so on.

00:07:53: In powerlifting, it's not the case at all.

00:07:55: We structure the trainings around the main three lifts.

00:07:58: So the trainings look like today you're going to train squat and bench, and then you're going to do some bodybuilding that will help you.

00:08:05: on the powerlifting exercises that you train this day.

00:08:08: So it would look like Monday, squat bench, then leg exercises, then triceps exercises.

00:08:15: the next day would be deadlift and back exercises and so on.

00:08:18: So the frequency of each muscle is much higher than invulnerability.

00:08:23: Have you competed professionally?

00:08:25: And what is the experience like?

00:08:28: I have.

00:08:29: I've been competing professionally for four years now, between one to two times per year, depending on the life period I was in, I would say.

00:08:37: Last time was one month ago, where I totaled seven hundred forty-five kg.

00:08:41: That places me, I think, a tenth nationally and four hundredth worldwide.

00:08:46: I would say that competitions are always amazing.

00:08:48: That's why people compete.

00:08:49: No one will tell you they don't like to compete.

00:08:51: In powerlifting, I think they're an event where you can gather with your peers.

00:08:55: We are not that many very heavy lifters, I would say, in general, especially in commercial gyms.

00:08:59: So you get to gather together.

00:09:02: And you can truly express yourself, I would say, because in the commercial gyms, you tend to a bit, I would say, downsize the extent of your emotions, I would say.

00:09:11: And related to the competitions, they're very demanding because you have referees, which you don't have at the gym, and the rules are very strict.

00:09:18: So in essence, it's very hard, if not impossible, to reproduce your training personal records.

00:09:22: And for me, it's very humbling because your ego tends to inflate at the gym, and then you go back to reality in competition.

00:09:29: So for me every competition is like plus five years of humility and experience I would say.

00:09:36: Does the adrenaline help at the competition or is it something that you know you have?

00:09:40: maybe you have sweaty hands and you're excited but also you have sweaty hands and you have to fight to do that clean lift because also dangerous.

00:09:47: as you said you know you have these super heavy weights you have to lift so small things like this that are usually an annoyance can be really dangerous in that moment right?

00:09:57: How do you deal with that?

00:09:58: That's true.

00:09:58: So you have plenty of spotters that ensure you safety during the competition.

00:10:03: So actually it's safer to live during the competition than in commercial gyms.

00:10:06: And then you have, I think, two types of profiles.

00:10:09: for the athletes, you have people who react well to the adrenaline, a bit like me, and tend to overperform in competition.

00:10:16: I think that would be between five and ten percent of the athletes.

00:10:18: And then you have the other ones who tend to mentally break during the competition because you have an audience, you have referees, you have the different bars, different weights, even they look different, they feel different.

00:10:30: So everything that you know in your commercial gyms, you don't have it here.

00:10:34: even where the walls are, you know, your perception of space is completely different.

00:10:38: So people, I think most people tend to, I would say, break down.

00:10:42: And then the other difficulty of the competitions is that you have to max out the three lifts the same day, which never happens in training.

00:10:51: This never happens in training because that's way too taxing.

00:10:54: For example, my last competition was one month ago and I still feel it now.

00:10:57: My lifts are very poor right now as I'm still a bit achy.

00:11:01: because it's very traumatizing.

00:11:02: So that additional difficulty also is hard to handle because the heaviest and most taxing lift, which is the deadlift, comes at the end after squat and bench.

00:11:12: You're exhausted.

00:11:12: You literally just want to go home and sleep.

00:11:15: And this is where you have to push extra.

00:11:17: So all of it makes the competition very, very hard.

00:11:20: But I think that's what also what makes them valuable and memorable.

00:11:25: So when you Google powerlifting on YouTube, then you see those video clips where people trying to lift up those unbelievable heavy weights and they're shaking and there are also some accidents.

00:11:39: So is this something that happens from time to time?

00:11:42: Because people are very motivated to make those lifts on a competition.

00:11:47: Do people go too far?

00:11:49: Or do you think?

00:11:50: You're right.

00:11:51: It's scary, but it's also very rare.

00:11:53: I think they have overexposure in social media.

00:11:58: it never happens in the competition.

00:12:00: I've never seen it, never happened to me.

00:12:02: You can get injured in training, that happens, but usually it's not very dramatic injuries.

00:12:07: It's like, you know, a muscle is a bit tense, so it hurts, your knee is a bit achy because it's inflated, things like that, but it's never those, you know, very impressive injuries.

00:12:17: that doesn't happen.

00:12:19: What's the proudest moment as a power lifter?

00:12:21: One is actually the latest competition where I... climbed to the upper ladder of the national rankings and also in international rankings.

00:12:29: So I was very proud of it because I've been waiting for it for a long time.

00:12:32: And the second is the acknowledgments of the sport by my parents because they attended a competition two years ago for the first time.

00:12:42: They've been very skeptical until then and they just wanted to witness it with their own eyes.

00:12:46: And so they came from Morocco to Paris to witness it.

00:12:49: And at the end, I remember my dad saying right after the competition, he said, I quote, now I understand it's not about lifting weights, it's about overcoming fear.

00:12:58: And that's exactly what it is.

00:13:00: And it meant much more than any number on the bar.

00:13:04: That really sounds like a special moment.

00:13:06: The next question is a little bit more about how you balance work and training, how you fit it all together.

00:13:15: because every day just has twenty four hours.

00:13:17: So how do you stay motivated?

00:13:19: How do you manage your energy level?

00:13:23: Maybe you can elaborate a little bit more about that.

00:13:26: Yes, to be honest, yes, it is.

00:13:27: So the schedule I gave you is on a with a period with no rushes or peaks.

00:13:32: And that's sustainable because I get to sleep, I would say seven to eight hours.

00:13:37: Sleep is very important.

00:13:39: However, whenever consulting takes a larger share of the of the work, I either sleep less, which I don't advise.

00:13:48: And I just adapt the trainings not to get injured because I slept less.

00:13:51: And I go to a gym that is open twenty four seven or I simply reschedule the trainings to the weekend, which I also avoid because doing so also means less social events with your partner with your friends and so on.

00:14:04: So I try to balance everything out.

00:14:06: It's not.

00:14:08: It's not easy, to be honest, but so far it's been working.

00:14:11: The decision algorithm is always as follows.

00:14:13: Work first, then I would say training and social events at the same level, and sleep is the one that takes a toll.

00:14:22: How does Roland Berger support you in balancing both worlds better?

00:14:26: Roland Berger has been great.

00:14:28: Before competition, they let me fit the trainings into saner hours when possible, so in the afternoon, even if it means working late.

00:14:36: I would rather train in the afternoon with the extra caffeine than train at work late with less caffeine so that I can sleep better.

00:14:44: And the support is really huge.

00:14:45: I didn't expect that much.

00:14:47: And then it lets me bring full energy to both worlds instead of pretending one does not exist.

00:14:53: What skills or mindsets from powerlifting help you in consulting, if any?

00:14:58: There are two.

00:14:59: First is the emotion self-control during competitions, as I mentioned.

00:15:03: because you'll get to be very doubtful.

00:15:07: And during hidden steering committees, not to lose composure and to stay calm.

00:15:12: And the second one is the rigor, obviously, because you need to be very rigorous, whether in training or in your analysis, either when doing them or presenting them.

00:15:22: So I think consulting and powerlifting are a bit similar just in the different worlds.

00:15:28: How do you handle setbacks, whether it's in the sports or client engagement.

00:15:35: So I would say that thing is partly think is about delayed gratification, to be honest.

00:15:39: It often happened to stall for several months, even years, even one, two years happened to me very often before getting much stronger all of a sudden.

00:15:48: And you don't know why, but actually you just compounded all the work you've done and then it just expresses itself at some point.

00:15:54: So when you know that this is how it works, you actually enjoy fading because you understand it's getting you closer to the goal.

00:16:03: There is a code that says, if you knew how many times you had to fail before succeeding, how fast would you want to fail?

00:16:10: It's exactly the same thing.

00:16:11: And so you tend to become much more stoic and less prone to reacting negatively to the setbacks.

00:16:18: And you just keep putting the work without over thinking.

00:16:21: I think it's the same for consulting.

00:16:23: How did you cultivate your discipline and mental strengths over the years?

00:16:29: Because some people are born with it more than others.

00:16:32: But I think it has to grow with you, right?

00:16:34: To gain success with powerlifting and consulting.

00:16:39: You're right.

00:16:39: You're right.

00:16:40: I think there is a misconception between motivation and discipline.

00:16:44: They are often mistaken for each other.

00:16:46: Motivation comes and goes.

00:16:47: It goes much more often than it comes.

00:16:49: So you cannot rely on it, especially when you wake up in winter at five a.m.

00:16:53: to go train.

00:16:54: No one wants to do it, even myself who is passionate.

00:16:58: So this is where discipline takes over.

00:17:01: And the way I see it is that discipline is a form of self-respect and self-love.

00:17:06: It might sound a bit cliche, but that's really true.

00:17:09: So whenever I wake up very early, the first things that comes to my mind is I don't want to go.

00:17:14: But then you have to override it with.

00:17:17: you have to go because you owe it to yourself.

00:17:19: That was the contract at the beginning.

00:17:29: It's an interesting question.

00:17:31: Most colleagues are supportive and amused, I would say, because if you take out the powerlifting aspect on paper, I say, you wouldn't expect me to do competition when you look at the resume.

00:17:41: So people are usually amused.

00:17:43: And that's for the consultant's population, not the partner's population, because I think they just found out about it recently.

00:17:50: I've had a lot of very nice comments for the partner saying, I knew you were going to the gym, but I didn't know the extent.

00:17:57: of which you went to the gym.

00:17:58: and as a funny story one partner once he joked about my muscles he thought they were all air and actually he said no they're all iron not air.

00:18:08: it was very funny.

00:18:09: on a side note what i really enjoy and i didn't expect it is that people follow my journey my powerlifting journey now whether on social media or even at work.

00:18:20: they often ask me where i'm heading how are things going?

00:18:23: so it's become part of my identity.

00:18:25: at work i would say Even some of them come to the competitions to...

00:18:31: Does it inspire the others to go more often to the gym or at least go to the gym and eat a little bit of my house?

00:18:38: I think so.

00:18:40: I think it makes people think again about their relationship to sport and I think they tend to realize that it's possible to combine both, at least on the short term.

00:18:48: On the long term, I couldn't tell because some colleagues told me that they were inspired with such lifestyles.

00:18:55: other that I'm wasting my young years to quote them, which I fully understand.

00:18:59: I mean, everyone makes its own choices, but I've never been happier than in the last couple of years, so I'm fine with it.

00:19:06: Is there someone who inspires you both in consulting and powerlifting?

00:19:10: It's two persons, a consulting and in general, professionally, that's my dad, the one I mentioned at the beginning.

00:19:15: And powerlifting is my coach who is twenty percent stronger than I am, and I have no idea how he does that.

00:19:22: I mean, for me, it's inimaginable to lift even heavier.

00:19:25: So I'm really, really inspired by both these guys.

00:19:29: What advice would you give someone trying to balance a demanding job with a serious hobby?

00:19:34: The main pain point to most people is time.

00:19:36: They always say, I don't have time.

00:19:38: To which I would answer, please audit your time because you leak much more than you think.

00:19:42: At second is you should schedule the hobby like a client meeting.

00:19:46: Don't make it fit in the cracks.

00:19:48: If you do so, you will.

00:19:50: have time and you will notice you have much more time than you think.

00:19:53: Should

00:19:53: they be open about it?

00:19:54: or is this something because many people are afraid to be open about stuff like this?

00:19:58: It's a very good question.

00:19:59: I would advise to be open about it, but I would also advise not to let it interfere with your work.

00:20:06: Meaning, here is the situation I would depict.

00:20:09: You could tell your PM, hey, I am preparing for a marathon, so I will train from five to seven on Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

00:20:17: The implicit deal is that you have to catch up with those hours so that the quality of your deliverable is still the same.

00:20:26: if you didn't have it.

00:20:27: It shouldn't be at the expense of the deliverable quality, in my opinion.

00:20:31: It's just a ratio of all of time.

00:20:33: So being open apparently to reshuffle the time is fine as long as it doesn't jeopardize the project.

00:20:38: So what's next for you, either in consulting or in powerlifting?

00:20:41: In consulting, I've been newly promoted to project manager, so I'm simply excited to take on this new role.

00:20:47: I'm not looking for longer or further than the next few months, I would say.

00:20:53: I'm just happy to take on it.

00:20:55: And on the lifting platform, my goal is to go to the French nationals, which would be equivalent to being at the top ten in France, or equivalently, eight hundred kilos tall.

00:21:07: So that's plus six percent strength compared to now.

00:21:11: I think it will take me around one to two years if I don't get injured fingers crossed.

00:21:15: Coming back to your new role as project manager at Roland Burger, what would you say are the main challenges awaiting you?

00:21:23: Exciting when you're a project manager, you don't have one client, you have three.

00:21:27: The main client, obviously the one you're working for.

00:21:30: The other two clients are the partner.

00:21:33: and the teams the teams below you that work with you.

00:21:35: so you have to satisfy the three counterparts which is really hard because usually satisfying two comes at the expense of the last one.

00:21:44: that's the first challenge.

00:21:45: the second is you're now accountable for everything and if something goes wrong it's on you not on your teams.

00:21:51: so it's extra.

00:21:52: I think it's less analytical work because you don't perform the analysis anymore but it's much more stress and accountability in checking the work that's been done.

00:22:01: So I would say in a summary, much more stress, maybe less working hours, but maybe more extended working hours because you're depending on the outputs of everyone.

00:22:11: So I'm very happy to see how I'm going to cope with this new equation.

00:22:15: Thank you very much for all the insights so far.

00:22:18: So my last question is a more casual question, to be honest.

00:22:23: It's about Paris and do you have a favorite spot you would suggest to colleagues or friends or people who visit the city?

00:22:33: Yeah, it's an underrated spot.

00:22:34: It's called Les Invalides.

00:22:39: It's a beautiful monument which also holds the Museum of the Army and I advise it's very underrated.

00:22:46: Maybe you haven't heard about it.

00:22:48: Usually people go for Tour Eiffel and so on, but please go to Invalides, especially in the night.

00:22:52: It's very beautiful.

00:22:54: Thank you very much Mavana for taking the time to record this session with me.

00:22:58: If you'd like to know more about Roland Berger, our initiatives and the way we work and what values we are holding up, then visit our career website.

00:23:09: And of course, do not forget to follow our social media channels.

00:23:13: Thank you very much for listening.

00:23:14: My name is Ben and I'm looking forward to have you on board on the next episode of the Roland Berger People Insights podcast.

00:23:22: Have an amazing week!

00:23:24: And always remember, be the original you.