From Orchestra Pit to Project Pitch: Paul’s Life in Music and Consulting

00:00:02:

00:00:04: Hi,

00:00:07: this is Paul and you are listening to the Roland Berger People Insights podcast.

00:00:12: Hello and welcome to episode number six of The Roland Berge People Insight's Podcast!

00:00:18: My name is Ben.

00:00:18: I'm a communications manager at Roland Bergen And todays episode about Paul.

00:00:23: Paul isn't only successful senior consultant at Roland berger but also an active world-class musician.

00:00:29: Let's find out how he balances notes and numbers, And learn more about his way into consulting.

00:00:35: Stay tuned!

00:00:57: The same harmonies and chord progressions tugging at our heartstrings, it's the same melodies that get stuck in your head.

00:01:04: Solo practice or group rehearsal?

00:01:06: Again can't have one without another!

00:01:23: Not unlike consulting.

00:01:24: You craft your own skills, but then you have to apply it in a group setting.

00:01:28: Structured routine or spontaneous creativity?

00:01:30: Among my musician colleagues I've always been known as the structured-routine guy even to the extent that few of my friends use last name as verb.

00:01:39: so to do wire something means to planet meticulously.

00:01:42: As a cellist i've made sure that my practice was hyperstructured.

00:01:46: Of course now when consulting people expect me being the spontaneous creative guy because I'm an artist.

00:01:52: So I hope to live up to both of those.

00:01:55: But, uh...I probably tend be more a structured routine guy.

00:01:58: Thank you very much!

00:01:59: Now let's find out little bit about your life.

00:02:02: Where did u grow up?

00:02:03: so i was born in the US but my parents moved to Vienna when I was five months old and then we move to Munich When I was eight years old And I finished high school or my Abitur there Then moved to U.S for college when i was nineteen.

00:02:17: How did first come into contact with music?

00:02:19: None of my family are professional musicians, but there was a lot of music around in the house at all times.

00:02:25: My mother played piano and organ...my two older sisters both played instruments as well.

00:02:30: In Vienna where I grew up until I was eight i joined an early Music program almost by default.

00:02:36: it seemed that when I was about four or five.

00:02:39: And then in first grade?

00:02:41: I Was trying to choose what instrument to start and I really wanted to play the double bass because they loved how big and low It is But I was told that it's too small, so i should start on a half-sized cello.

00:02:53: Yeah and from there I never look back.

00:02:55: What did you study?

00:02:56: And where?

00:02:57: My first several degrees were all in cello performance.

00:03:00: So got my bachelor's music From Oberlin Conservatory Which is In tiny town just outside of Cleveland.

00:03:07: Then I got a master's andoctoral degree from the University of Michigan Um...I then took year to do a Fulbright Fellowship in Amsterdam To study with couple of kind of cello gurus There.

00:03:19: And then while I was there, I was recruited to be one of the first to participate in a new specialized graduate degree at Juilliard.

00:03:26: So it ended up being New York City for few years Then fast forwarded a few more years and ultimately added an MBA at University of Chicago Booth School Business.

00:03:46: It's kind of considered number two behind the Metropolitan Opera in New York.

00:03:52: So, The Orchestra is a very large orchestra with tenured positions.

00:03:58: so that way you get to job at first place because you have travel there probably with two or three hundred your best colleague friends and sit behind their screen playing audition.

00:04:10: I went through that process ultimately won it and then you're a member of the orchestra.

00:04:17: Assistant Principal specifically means that your in front stand, You & The Principal lead this section And Your the ones also playing solos whenever they come up.

00:04:26: There are quite few in the opera literature fortunately.

00:04:30: So In terms my daily life Which is still combination solo practice at home.

00:04:35: Then group rehearsal At the Opera.

00:04:38: The schedule varies a lot because there's so many moving parts to an opera production that orchestra the chorus, the singers.

00:04:44: The stage sets and often you're playing several performances of three different full operas in a single week.

00:04:51: So at first it was pretty intense.

00:04:53: I had never played operas before And as assistant principal i'm sitting In the front getting a section Of tell us who have all been in the Orchestra for over thirty years?

00:05:02: They really know what they are doing.

00:05:04: One thing That Never Got Old was every time I walked into the pit from backstage, be it for rehearsal or a show.

00:05:12: Looking out to this beautiful hall with four thousand velvet red seats that is pretty gratifying.

00:05:18: so definitely nice place

00:05:25: React because you were the new guy and they are so super experienced.

00:05:28: How did that dynamic work out?

00:05:30: Yeah, at first I was super worried Because there are stories of big orchestras where people People are set in their ways.

00:05:40: They really think highly Of what they're doing And i mean That-that Was true here too.

00:05:45: But The Tele section In particular.

00:05:47: they Were Super welcoming And very nice.

00:05:50: They never tried to make me feel like have what it takes or I don't have the right experience, if anything goes the opposite.

00:05:57: You know there were some operas where...I dunno It was a very tricky spot for us to follow The Singer and one of the cellists from behind would tap me on my shoulder in rehearsal saying hey look ahead at this page that's really a tricky spot you wanna watch out for.

00:06:12: So they're actually really supportive helping me succeed rather than trying tricking up and wanting to see me fail.

00:06:21: It was a really very collegial experience.

00:06:25: How did the pandemic impact you in that period of time?

00:06:30: The pandemic took a huge toll on the performing arts, Of course it took a lot of areas of society but as one my colleagues like to say we cram people into closed small spaces for hours at.

00:06:45: So it was nice while it lasted.

00:06:47: I think like the whole world, people were trying to pretend as long as possible As though this is something that would pass pretty quickly.

00:06:54: But of course eventually we had some sense for what's coming.

00:06:57: For me personally one night in March twenty-twenty... ...I was leaving The Stage Door from the opera on a kind still riding high From just having performed Puccini's Opera Madame Butterfly.

00:07:09: And then within a few days, not only was the rest of that season canceled but we also found out.

00:07:14: The entire following season was cancelled so We were effectively all out-of work for the next year and a half.

00:07:20: How did you cope with those bettons?

00:07:22: For me personally there are A lot of reasons.

00:07:24: my wife & I Were rethinking what Was coming Next.

00:07:27: My Wife is a violinist too.

00:07:30: So...for both Of us it meant our industry Was wiped Out for the Next Year and a Half.

00:07:35: Additionally, we had just found out that my wife is pregnant with a beautiful daughter who happens to be turning five tomorrow.

00:07:41: But yeah for me.

00:07:42: additionally during this time I wasn't suddenly removed from the opera.

00:07:46: i was actually on The Union Orchestra Committee at the Lyric Opera.

00:07:51: So I spent lots and lots of zoom calls With the executive leadership of the opera company And board members of the Opera Company basically trying to figure out what the next steps are for The Opera Company.

00:08:05: There was an aspect of how or whether musicians should even get paid while the opera house had to remain dark, and then there's this strategic element that we as a performing arts institution have to offer when our physical doors shut And also about how that dovetails into post-pandemic future.

00:08:24: We didn't know when post pandemic would start.

00:08:27: So that whole process made me want a better perspective on strategic thought, how large organizations are run.

00:08:34: So I'm not just the musician who you guys aren't doing a good job but actually have some ideas of how to do it

00:08:42: and which steps did you take to make that happen?

00:08:45: The MBA decision actually grew out of...a moment several years earlier.

00:08:49: It goes way back when i was working at my doctorate in the University of Michigan.

00:08:55: I was on fellowship from federal government so had two year's funding left But finished all coursework And my cello teacher at the time, who loved thinking outside of box and encouraging his students to do interesting things beyond playing the cello.

00:09:09: He in... At some point just said to me hey Michigan has a great business school.

00:09:14: you should just do an MBA on this side while your finishing up your doctorate?

00:09:18: I think that by then it would not have been right fit for me but i was interested enough.

00:09:27: so fast forward I have all this free time on my hands and i did start thinking hey business school would actually be interesting.I do like learning,i liked going to the school.

00:09:37: so that's how it came about.

00:09:40: And This Time I started studying for the GMAT in earnest and worked out and ended up at Booth.

00:09:45: After finishing your MBA you joined Roland Berger.

00:09:50: How Did You Start Your Consulting Career?

00:09:52: To Be Entirely Honest!

00:09:53: I Didn't Know Much About Consulting Before My MBA.

00:09:56: So originally, I imagine my MBA would be two years of academic exploration.

00:10:01: then i'd see what options might interest me on the other side.

00:10:04: Of course that's not how it works.

00:10:06: Instead you're immediately funneled into this intense job recruiting process before you've even completed a single course.

00:10:13: Once I got there consulting was appealing to me because It is a profession where its NOT a prerequisite To have prior experience in a very specific industry and...it did seem like away to just very easily get exposed, two different industries and also build up a kind of business oriented skill set.

00:10:33: Once I heard about Roland Berger in particular as partially attracted to it because its German origins And having grown-up Germany that intrigued me But probably even more than from the start.

00:10:46: It was also firm where i felt most genuine interest.

00:10:50: As you can imagine, whenever I gave my semi-rehearsed intro at business school events or recruiting events the first reaction was always oh my god that's so cool.

00:10:59: i never met a professional cellist who went to business school before which of course is gratifying on some level but then often The next reaction would be okay.

00:11:08: So what are you doing here?

00:11:09: You know There there's this sense Of non traditional backgrounds and Some of them being A better fit than others.

00:11:16: To Be fair!I didn't get That very much.

00:11:19: One thing I definitely got from Roland Berger is that i always felt a genuine interest in me as person and potential colleague, And clear underlying notion.

00:11:27: of course there's value to hearing the perspective Of so called non-traditional applicant.

00:11:32: Even if had no experience making market models or whatever your kind of traditional business school student may have had.

00:11:42: What do you enjoy most about consulting?

00:11:47: My

00:11:47: role at Roland Berger is a senior consultant in the Boston office.

00:11:51: I'm part of the energy team, which was part of regulated and infrastructure.

00:11:55: what i enjoy most About consulting thus far um Is Working with my colleagues.

00:12:03: The energy team In the u.s..is an outstanding group Of people both in terms of their experience Their curiosity Their collegiality and helping each other grow.

00:12:17: That has really been striking to me, I would not have expected that in an intense job like this.

00:12:23: And then of course the learning curve is immense challenging.

00:12:28: It can be difficult at times if you have time pressure or deliverables coming up but sometimes back.

00:12:37: two-and a half years ago just how much more i know about Of course, about the energy industry itself but also just how organizations are run and things work.

00:12:48: So I think those were two things that really keep me going in consulting of course specifically at the World.

00:12:54: on Bianca

00:12:55: How do you balance your work or musical practice?

00:12:57: That's a very good question!

00:12:59: Not sure if i would always use this word to balance But there definitely times where we go several weeks at time without practicing the cello.

00:13:09: That's just natural if I'm on an intense project where that really has to be my focus, but then on the other hand Volanderga does enable me to Really dig into my musical part of my life as well for example?

00:13:21: i've been taking a ten week sabbatical in the summers and during this time There are couple festivals that I've been playing for many years that I go play concerts at.

00:13:33: I sometimes tour with my string quartet.

00:13:36: So there are a lot of things that I still am able to do and Roland Berger enables with that sabbatical.

00:14:05: prepared to deliver a compelling beautiful performance, right?

00:14:10: But then unexpected things still happen.

00:14:13: For example last summer I was playing the Schumann cello concerto with an orchestra and often the soloist-the cellist is on a little podium And while i was playing that podium actually broke.

00:14:26: So so The endpin.

00:14:29: where my cello stuck into the podium it just slipped down to the floor, like two feet down.

00:14:36: So suddenly my cello was done at my knees.

00:14:38: so that's something you don't think of in the practice room to prepare for.

00:14:42: I was able to just kind of pick it up choose a different spot on the podium and then talk with the conductor where we restart and go on.

00:14:50: And i think there are equivalents of that In business presentations too Where It could be A technical issue The client asking You didn't expect or challenging you in a way that you did not expect.

00:15:06: And, to the extent they can be prepared for the unexpected I think thats common across client presentations and musical performance.

00:15:15: What would say is more challenging playing in front of thousands people?

00:15:20: Or sitting on boardroom with highly stressed but interested clients who wants your solutions?

00:15:28: I

00:15:29: think that depends a lot on who you are.

00:15:31: So for me, i very much thrive in playing for thousands of people and generally it's something that feeling of people being there to hear me play music and be able to share this, And also be spontaneous in the moment with them.

00:15:50: For The Client presentation for me it's a little more nerve-wracking at the moment but its probably mostly because I just haven't done It thousands and thousands times as i have With Music.

00:15:59: As you said There is an intensity In That.

00:16:03: even though they want To Hear Your Solutions theres Probably Also A Whole Set Of Different Solutions They Have In Their Head.

00:16:10: You Need To Defend Against.

00:16:13: So to me, that at the moment is more nerve-wracking than performing for thousands of people.

00:16:19: Did a client ever ask you perform

00:16:20: them?

00:16:21: Good question!

00:16:22: You know thus far I haven't necessarily advertised That i'm a musician.

00:16:27: It's interesting.

00:16:27: you asked though.

00:16:28: during my internship which was in the summer of twenty twenty two we did have a dinner At a steakhouse and some Of our client counterparts were there as well And...I actually had my cello with Me because a concert on the weekend that I had to travel straight from the client's site too.

00:16:48: And at some point, our project manager asked if i wanted to play for them at the restaurant.

00:16:54: so this project manager actually asked the restaurant to turn off their music and everyone got quiet.

00:17:01: all the other diners in the restaurant got quite So I played uh...a movement of Bach solo suite!

00:17:11: This is probably the client dinner that this client will never forget.

00:17:17: How has your musical background shaped you approach to problem solving in business?

00:17:22: Honestly, I think a lot of the problem-solving happening for me personally and The Practice Room Is A Microversion Of What Problem Solving In Business Requires As Well.

00:17:36: So it's really just breaking down issues thinking about different ways You Can Approach It different ways.

00:17:42: you can think about and solve a little portion of the issue, but then also keep in mind how it fits into the larger challenge or strategy that you're trying to solve for.

00:17:53: So I do think my musical background has shaped my approach to problem-solving But i don't think its that idiosyncratic compared with other people thinking.

00:18:11: Actually, I think it's exactly the fact that i do both.

00:18:15: That keeps me super inspired and nurtured for Both.

00:18:19: So no, I Think consulting is a job where its easy to get in hamster wheel And start feeling burned out Because I have this almost like This other life that I can go To during my summer sabbatical For ten weeks Where Im still doing something that im very Intensely involved In.

00:18:41: While I'm on that sabbatical, i'm already thinking about how great it's gonna be to come back to Olimpia.

00:18:47: To do some consulting.

00:18:48: So I think thats a very unique situation That I have Of course.

00:18:51: conversely...I look forward to the time where I can just go focus On playing them music.

00:18:57: so..i think The balance or combination of two is what makes both of Them even more gratifying and More important in my life.

00:19:07: What advice would you give to professionals seeking to balance artistic passions with corporate career?

00:19:14: My main advice is that it's possible.

00:19:17: And there are probably more people out here than who think we're doing so.

00:19:20: just find them and go talk to them, not necessarily try what they do but open your mind.

00:19:28: the possibilities exist.

00:19:30: So I definitely think on the idiosyncratic end of a spectrum in terms.

00:19:33: So there's no one-size fits all or typical career progression, so in that sense it is hard to say I'm giving you this kind of advice.

00:19:43: For me right now its having a consulting job thats completely unrelated to any of my artistic endeavors but importantly the job as we talked about allows us keep those artistic endeavors part of our life.

00:19:55: What does it mean be professional musician compared an amateur

00:19:59: or

00:20:00: hobby musician?

00:20:01: Yeah!

00:20:01: Its good question and i think they are professional musicians grapple with all the time, because for me at least it still is a passion and you never want that part to go away.

00:20:12: But once you've committed to being professional especially if thats your only profession then of course theres alot more tied-to playing music than just as u say meeting some friends & having fun.

00:20:24: You still wanna be able do that but ofcourse the stakes are higher.

00:20:28: Your livelihood depends on it.

00:20:30: Ofcourse Once Thats True you get into politics, career trajectories and all of that.

00:20:37: And for example the job I won.

00:20:39: it's so difficult and takes so much hard work but also luck to be the one chosen from several hundred people behind a screen because It could depend on what part-of-the day your audition is.

00:20:52: Did The Audition Committee just come back From A Bad Lunch?

00:20:56: Are They Tired?

00:20:58: Do they not like the piece that you chose to play?

00:21:00: Now, all of those things can factor into this huge step in your career.

00:21:04: There's a lot more pressure involved I think.

00:21:07: once you are professional musician You're dealing with a lot of the interpersonal dynamics That you would at any other job.

00:21:13: So yeah there...there some challenges associated With that but i for my part have always been lucky To be able keep the passion and um For the most part Keep good relationships and kind of a lack of competitive spirit that would destroy them for me.

00:21:32: Thank you very much Paul, for taking the time to let us take a look inside life over professional musician And senior consultant.

00:21:40: If you'd like to know more about Roland Berger our initiatives and The way we work and what values We are holding up.

00:21:47: then visit our career website And of course do not forget to follow our social media channels.

00:21:54: Thank you very much for listening, my name is Ben.

00:21:57: Have an amazing week and always remember be the original you.